Forum Status

Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:42 pm

ive modified the summary to include a poll of the 3 different sites. Note to users, ive allowed the ability to cahnge your option based on the fact that the sites may change here and there to fit the needs of the people's requests.

http://www.python-forum.org/viewtopic.p ... 859#p47859
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Re: Forum Status

Postby Kebap » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:50 pm

sparkz_alot wrote:Thanks metulburr for the summary and snippsat for at least moving forward.
It seems to me that the mods and admins need to get organized, you need to (via PM, email or whatever means suits you):

1) pick someone amongst you to act as coordinator- 1 week
2) decide on TLD and reserve it- 1 week
3) decide on software- 1 week
4) decide on host- 1 week
5) install and shakedown site- 1 week
6) install stickys all over this site directing people to new site- ongoing


Coming back to this plan of action.. I see action all over the place and not much particular order..

1) I see no coordinator yet
2) we have multiple TLDs reserved without deciding on any single one yet
3) everybody is talking about software, even want to start a vote in 2-3 days, no have already started voting. do only mods/admins get a vote? no, all users get a vote. do they vote for forum software or TLD? probably software is meant, but the options show TLDs
4) multiple hosts are being tried out already
5) test installations have been started, shaking down has somewhat begun, but seems not very focused. also not sure if the final installation will come from one of these tests, or be set up freshly by itself again in the future
6) at least there were no stickies yet promoting a switch to one of the test sites.. alas there was a post in the top-most sub-forum promoting one of the test-forums as a new forum to go as this forum right here would be no good. no sure if smart communication.

would be great to come to more coordinated planning and action.. we still have time to decide on forum software after thorough testing, let's try and not rush too much to decisions just to get somewhere quickly.
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IRC://irc.freenode.net/python-forum
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:53 pm

The problem is everybody wants to do something different. Some are willing to put forth some effort at putting things up and attempting to put things up as examples.

1) I see no coordinator yet

Im not sure if it is a good idea for one to be honest. Assigning one person as the head honcho just replaces this forums admin with yet another. I believe the idea was that this future site would have a board of users who control the site. With more of a democracy approach. At least thats how we have been running this forum via mods. The only problem with this approach is we all need to decide on one domain, one host, and one forum software to start off on. This requires all mods to be in agreement of all those things.

even want to start a vote in 2-3 days

I like the vote idea. But i dont like the time limits. Everyone should get to vote, all users. I dont like the week time limit or 2-3 day limit. Some people are busy and need time. Plus not all mods even know avout any of these sites being up. The voting itself though is i think a good idea. If the majority at the end tend to lean towards one more than the others, i think the community has spoken through that.

do they vote for forum software or TLD? probably software is meant, but the options show TLDs

Yeah i mean the software used on those sites. The domain name can be changed. I fixed the title poll.
6) at least there were no stickies yet promoting a switch to one of the test sites.. alas there was a post in the top-most sub-forum promoting one of the test-forums as a new forum to go as this forum right here would be no good. no sure if smart communication.

There is nothing set in stone. We all are just putting up forums on which each would like to show for others to see and use to get a better idea of what options are available.

EDIT:
Actually ill make two polls. One for forum software, and one for domain names.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby Crimson King » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:00 am

I just read Kebap's private message. I haven't been as active as I want to I'm afraid, hoping this will change in the future.

I'm up for moving to a new place.

Style-wise I prefer metulburr.com. Don't really know if there's any advantages in terms of functionality, but to my eyes that one is more appealing.

I wouldn't mind losing the current posts. I know it's a shame because there's some really nice answers and posts by everyone, but I don't see people coming here expecting a solution in a stackoverflow manner. They come to the forum when SO doesn't provide them with what they are looking for (I may be wrong here but this is the way I feel about it). Of course if we could get the old db that would be nice, but I place more importance in getting a new place.

Is there anything that I can help with? I'm not really busy these days at work.

PS: Already voted on both polls.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby wavic » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:21 pm

I was thinking, Python forum site on PHP?
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:30 pm

Python forum site on PHP?

We have been around this over and over in the past years. Yes a forum made in python can be done. There are not many (if any) pre-existing fully featured forums in existence in python. There are libraries in which aid in, such as Django. But we would still have to create, debug, and test it. And that process could literally take years to do. Meanwhile our goal is to break free from "absentee-landlord admins" as mekire puts it.

We have in the past tried to put together a group in which would create a forum in python. But that fizzled out 6 months in. Its hard enough to get a few mods to agree on a domain name and to select a default forum software, let alone to get them together to create software to discuss on. I would agree this approach seems interesting to me. But its going to have to be on the side lines for awhile. I know if there comes a time when a group created a forum in python (fully featured, fully debugged), then we would switch over. Mods have said that before. But until that time, we are just using pre-existing software. Which a majority is php/javascript/etc.. I mean the idea of python is not to re-invent the wheel. The wheel exists already, but its not made in python. Also all of us are volunteers. We dont get paid to answer question on here. We dont get paid to create a forum, etc. We are all here on our own free time. We use and enjoy python, we answer questions, etc. All we mainly want is a place to come together and discuss python. And we can do that on a forum not made in python.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby ichabod801 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:45 pm

Okay, I got phpBB installed on webfaction, and tried to do a database restore based on a recent backup of this site. I got a fatal error:

Code: Select all
Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Twig_Error_Loader' with message 'Unable to find template "message_body.html" (looked into: ).' in /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Loader/Filesystem.php:215 Stack trace: #0 /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/phpbb/template/twig/loader.php(107): Twig_Loader_Filesystem->findTemplate('message_body.ht...') #1 /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Loader/Filesystem.php(139): phpbb\template\twig\loader->findTemplate('message_body.ht...') #2 /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Environment.php(312): Twig_Loader_Filesystem->getCacheKey('message_body.ht...') #3 /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Environment.php(378): Twig_Environment->getTemplateClass('message_body.ht...', NULL) #4 /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/phpbb/template/twig/environment.php(151): Twig_Environment->loadTemplate('message_body.ht...', NULL) #5 /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Environment.php(362): phpbb\template\twig\ in /home/ichabod801/webapps/phpbb3/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Loader/Filesystem.php on line 215

The only other thing I can think of is to reload the database through MySQL and see if phpBB recognizes it. I don't think that will work. Looking through the phpBB documentation, it seems that to move the forum from one site to another, you need the php files and the database. I expect that swapping out the database through MySQL will cause similar errors. I'm assuming that because of our absent admin problems we don't have ftp access to grab the php files for the current forums.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:04 pm

wouldnt the php files be similar or identical to your local installation of phpbb?
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Re: Forum Status

Postby wavic » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:37 pm

@metulburr, I am aware with all you are saying. I am asking because at pyforum.io there is a question about it ( a python build forum ) and as you say there are few made on flask or django. I tried to learn django five months ago but I didn't get it. Some of the concepts in it has to mature in my head. It is little more clear now but I have to learn more. I didn't try again since then. But what I see it's hardly so hard to implement some of these ones for our needs. I am not speaking from my own experience or something like that which will allows me to claim it for sure. Also I am aware that PHP is easier to deploy than django or flask app
I am talking about it because I see no one of you even mentioned it. You boys have a lot of experience and if one of you want to say a few words why is that...
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:00 pm

We all were discussing it a few years ago. A few of the members here even got out some of the software.

https://github.com/benmezger/PythonForum

The reason it fizzled out beforehand is most likely the reason none of us mentioned it this time.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby ichabod801 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:16 pm

metulburr wrote:wouldnt the php files be similar or identical to your local installation of phpbb?


That's what I would have thought, but it appears that there are non-program files specific to a given forum. And I think that's beyond any attached files.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby micseydel » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:22 pm

ichabod801 wrote:I'm assuming that because of our absent admin problems we don't have ftp access to grab the php files for the current forums.

I think this is correct.

Sorry I've been away, once I had time to reply it looked like some things were pending that I decided to wait for.

My ideal preference would be to change as little as possible in small increments. Move this data to identical software on a new domain and host, ideally without a contract on the host (as Webfaction offers), though the domain needs to be committed to. Anything else, like software, should wait until we've safely moved. My expectation here is that moving the data over is easy.

If that's impossible or incredibly difficult, then I have zero preference for software (in the short term), I'll follow the community wherever it goes. The only thing I feel strongly about as things stand is the domain, for which I prefer python-forum.[io|net] for similar reasons of not making big changes quickly.

When the work week starts up again I'll have a hard time following this thread again, especially if things get complex (multiple decisions, like what software, or bbcode vs markup). My request is simply that stick posts be created and left up for a minimum of 8-15 days before this forum is locked down, and that period being a "this is the plan but we're still taking community feedback".

I also want to say again (as I think I said earlier) that this decision is not at all just up to the mods, so anyone can say anything they'd like. In fact us mods have an otherwise-invisible subforum here if we do want to say things that are specific to mods, but we rarely use it.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:55 pm

My request is simply that stick posts be created and left up for a minimum of 8-15 days before this forum is locked down, and that period being a "this is the plan but we're still taking community feedback".

I think this is a good idea

I'll follow the community wherever it goes

So are we just agreeing to whatever polls win then? There is no end date. I just assumed that over time one would be more obvious.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby ichabod801 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:16 pm

The MySQL option for refreshing the phpBB database is looking more problematic. It appears that the phpBB database export does not export all of the tables. In order to port the database over you need a full export of the database from phpMyAdmin or MySQL. Which again, we can't get because of the absent admin problem.

I am considering this a dead end. I certainly have no more energy to put into it. I still think we should do a final export of the database before we leave here. It can't hurt to have the data. I will mockup python-forum.io to look sort of like this place if people want to try it out. Not that there's much point, seeing as it's just this place without all the data.

metulburr wrote:So are we just agreeing to whatever polls win then? There is no end date. I just assumed that over time one would be more obvious.

I would still suggest (if it's not obvious) that we do a run-off poll.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby micseydel » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:54 pm

metulburr wrote:So are we just agreeing to whatever polls win then?

Yes, and I encourage anyone who has any strong feelings at all to contribute.

ichabod801, I really appreciate the effort since I thought that path would be ideal. We can definitely do an export and do manual data munging later on (though I don't think it should block the move, since every day delayed is a risk of the community being dissolved).
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Re: Forum Status

Postby ichabod801 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:59 pm

micseydel wrote:ichabod801, I really appreciate the effort since I thought that path would be ideal.

No problem. As it turns out, the hosting company for my personal website is jacking up their prices on the next renewal. This made me look at options, and I'm probably going to switch my personal site to webfaction.

micseydel wrote:We can definitely do an export and do manual data munging later on (though I don't think it should block the move, since every day delayed is a risk of the community being dissolved).

Totally agreed.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:39 am

ichabod801, I really appreciate the effort since I thought that path would be ideal.

Ditto. Thank you for the effort.



ichabod801 wrote:
micseydel wrote:We can definitely do an export and do manual data munging later on (though I don't think it should block the move, since every day delayed is a risk of the community being dissolved).

Totally agreed.

Agree also.

So what do you guys think is a good "deadline"?
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Re: Forum Status

Postby micseydel » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:41 am

ichabod801 wrote:I'm probably going to switch my personal site to webfaction.

Feel free (though not obligated) to ping me about a referral code, I'll have to check that they have them but yeah :)

metulburr wrote:So what do you guys think is a good "deadline"?

Once things look solid among changing/strong opinions, I'd say start the 8-15 day countdown. If things simmer up and anything important changes or anyone wants to wait, cancel and start again next time. If canceling happens 2-3 times we re-examine the process then.

Also, this isn't a blocker, but for "pending" threads we should probably be explicit about the protocol for resolving them.
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Re: Forum Status

Postby metulburr » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:04 am

I would like to see a bare minimum of 20 votes before considering it "final". I would like to see all mods and regular users vote as well. Then any other user in addition. I figured i would give it some time for users to display their interests in discussion as well as voting. Currently python-forum.[io][net] is neck and neck. But only 10 people voted on it. So im not sure how many is enough.

But i am wondering what others would consider "final".
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Re: Forum Status

Postby ichabod801 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:57 pm

metulburr wrote:I would like to see a bare minimum of 20 votes before considering it "final".

If you wait for a specific number, you may wait forever. I would give it to the 12th. That would give people a full week and a weekend, not counting the holiday.

metulburr wrote:Currently python-forum.[io][net] is neck and neck. But only 10 people voted on it. So im not sure how many is enough.

We could have both, with redirection. Not that the redirection is working yet for me. But the change didn't take the first time at webfaction. I redid it yesterday, but it may need more time for propogation.

micseydel wrote:Feel free (though not obligated) to ping me about a referral code, I'll have to check that they have them but yeah :)

They do, and I would, but I'll probably just keep the account I have, and make another one for the forum if we need it. Unless we can change the user name for the account from ichabod801.
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