dietrich41 wrote:In the last 2 years I have noticed an alarming drop in the interest in the Python language. Is this Python itself, or computer programming in general?
dietrich41 wrote:Python3 has certainly removed some warts from the Python language, but has also crippled wxPython, one of the popular GUI toolkits. Yes I know that there are very limited efforts on the way to bring it back. Well, another GUI toolkit called PyQt to the rescue, but now we have the rough change from PyQt4 to PyQt5. Somewhat frustrating!
Am I bitching? Yes!
but has also crippled wxPython, one of the popular GUI toolkits. Well, another GUI toolkit called PyQt to the rescue, but now we have the rough change from PyQt4 to PyQt5.
I agree that the fractured community has done a ton of harm to Python in the past years. I think the idea that py3 has done actual harm to the language a pretty laughable argument though; laughable because you can write nearly identical code in py3 if you really desire.pydsigner wrote:I think that Python 3 has done more harm than good, both to the community and to the language.
Mekire wrote: I think the idea that py3 has done actual harm to the language a pretty laughable argument though; laughable because you can write nearly identical code in py3 if you really desire.
I would like nothing more than to be able to only work with py3 and completely remove py2 from all my machines. I'm tired of having to write mutually compatible code because some people still won't (or can't) move on.
pydsigner wrote:But don't start stuffing the characteristics of Java into a good language.
micseydel wrote:pydsigner wrote:But don't start stuffing the characteristics of Java into a good language.
Could you be more specific?
micseydel wrote:That's an interesting comment. Could you elaborate on it further?
I agree somewhat up to this point, but I'm hoping type hinting might make the difference. I feel like it can really help with long-term projects that are maintained by large teams who've been reluctant to pick up Python before.
micseydel wrote:What exactly do you have against Java? It's used in enterprise because it's relatively idiot-proof. Python can adopt the good parts (static typing, optionally) without the terrible parts (the worst OOP model I've ever seen).
pydsigner wrote:I think Paul Graham did a good article on the subject: http://paulgraham.com/javacover.html (Yes, old, but I think that history has proved his doubts)
Paul Graham (2001) wrote:[...] I've never written a Java program, [...] but I have a hunch that it won't be a very successful language. I may turn out to be mistaken; making predictions about technology is a dangerous business. But for what it's worth, as a sort of time capsule, here's why I don't like the look of Java:
1. [...] No one had to promote C, or Unix, or HTML. [...] Perl is as big as Java, or bigger, just on the strength of its own merits.
pydsigner wrote:I don't want an idiot-proof language, because idiot-proof languages always sacrifice something else for that quality.
micseydel wrote:I'd like to know your thoughts here. Feel free to quote the the document, but I don't want to take the whole thing in as-is.
Paul Graham (2001) wrote:It's designed for large organizations. Large organizations have different aims from hackers. They want languages that are (believed to be) suitable for use by large teams of mediocre programmers-- languages with features that, like the speed limiters in U-Haul trucks, prevent fools from doing too much damage. Hackers don't like a language that talks down to them. Hackers just want power. Historically, languages designed for large organizations (PL/I, Ada) have lost, while hacker languages (C, Perl) have won. The reason: today's teenage hacker is tomorrow's CTO.
micseydel wrote:I think type hinting is a fantastic idea, a compromise between static typing and clean code, for example.
micseydel wrote:That said, I'm still curious what your thoughts are. What specifically do you think Python 3 adopted from Java which is bad? I'll probably agree with you, but I do want to know what you think.
pydsigner wrote:I think that type hinting makes most sense as a means for performance optimization/ease of binding to static languages.
pydsigner wrote:I'll mention again here the anointing of threading.py by renaming thread to _thread. Additionally the Python-ideas mailing list is filled with people asking for things like "else if:" support. I'd mention logging.py as well but that's much older than Python 3....
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